Frumzi Casino - La discrepancia en la cancelación de retiros deja al jugador con un déficit de 500€.

Hello, due to a daily limit of €500, following a win, I requested 3 withdrawals of €500 each on 3 different days.

The first withdrawal went through smoothly. On 4/12/2023, this withdrawal was credited to my bank account. The second withdrawal, which initially appeared as pending (with the possibility of cancellation), was handled (I received an email confirming this). The third withdrawal, as it was still pending, I cancelled and replayed the amount of €500. At the time of cancellation, I had 16.26€ in my account, which added to the 500, made a total of 516.26€ as I can show. This casino, however, claims that I cancelled two withdrawals of €500 instead of a single one. Indeed, in the account transactions, two cancellation entries appear, one with the description Creditcard and the other bankaccount, approximately 20 seconds apart, each with an identical total of €516.23, proving that it actually was a single withdrawal, because if there were two withdrawals the second entry would've been €1016.23 instead of €516.23€. I've written several times to support and in all cases, they have replied that I cancelled the withdrawals. However, in their email dated 4/12/2023, it stated that the withdrawal was being processed. Please help me recover this amount of €500. I have all the transactions that prove this is the truth.

The casino claims that they have completed my due withdrawals and according to them it was only 500€. They still need to send another 500€, as proven by the last attachment regarding the withdrawal being processed (in this case the second withdrawal).

Salve, poiché c'è il limite di €500 giornalieri, in seguito a una vincita ho richiesto 3 prelievi di €500 ciascuno in 3 giorni diversi.

Il primo prelievo è andato a buon fine. In data 4/12/2023 mi è stato accreditato tale prelievo sul mio conto bancario. Il secondo prelievo che prima spuntava in attesa( con possibilità di annullamento) è stato preso in carico ( mi arriva email che dimostra questo), il terzo prelievo, poiché era ancora in sospeso l' ho annullato e rigiocata la somma di €500. Al momento dell'annullamento avevo 16.26€ nel conto, che così sommati ai 500, saldo reale 516.26 come posso dimostrare. Questo casinò invece sostiene che io abbia annullato due prelievi di €500 anziché un prelievo. Effettivamente nei movimenti del saldo spuntano due voci di annullamento, una però con la dicitura Creditcard e l altra bankaccount, a distanza di 20 secondi circa, e con un identico saldo reale di €516.23, il che dimostra che effettivamente si tratta di un unico prelievo, perché se fossero stati due prelievi il saldo reale alla seconda voce doveva essere €1016.23 anziché 516.23€. Ho scritto parecchie volte al supporto e in tutti i casi mi hanno risposto che io avevo annullato i prelievi. Invece nella mail da loro inviata spuntava in data 4/12/2023 che il prelievo era in elaborazione. Per favore aiutatemi a recuperare questa somma di €500. Ho tutti i movimenti che dimostrano che è la verità

Il casinò che loro hanno completato i prelievi a me dovuti. Secondo loro erano solo 500€. Invece devono mandare altri 500€ , come dimostra l' ultimo allegato che riguarda che il prelievo è stato preso in carico( in questo caso il secondo prelievo)

Dear JOEJANET90,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. Could you please clarify how much money you had in your account when you started requesting withdrawals and how much money you have there right now? Please, post a screenshot of your whole withdrawal/transaction history here in this thread.

Furthermore, have you accumulated your winnings with or without an active bonus?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Kristina

Hi, I didn't use any bonus to accumulate my winnings

I attach deposit/withdrawal balance history.

The amounts of €10/11/10 are 3 deposits (blue color). The €500 in blue is the withdrawal successful and credited within 3 working days. The problem is with the last 2 movements in red and with the wording cancelled. They claim that it involves two cancellations, when in fact it concerns only one cancellation, as demonstrated by the different writing of the two movements (bankdomestic and fmz creditcard)

Salve, non ho utilizzato nessun bonus per accumulare le vincite

Allego cronologia saldo depositi/ prelievi.

Gli importi di €10/11/10 sono 3 depositi( colore blu). Quello di €500 di colore blu è il prelievo andato a buon fine e accreditato entro 3 giorni lavorativi. Il problema è sugli ultimi 2 movimenti in rosso e con la dicitura annullati. Loro sostengono che si tratta di due annullamento, quando invece riguarda un solo annullamento,.come dimostra la scritta diversa dei due movimenti( bankdomestic e fmz creditcard)

Furthermore, after a careful check, I canceled a withdrawal on 4/12/2023, and they did not record this movement, recording only the movement of 1/12/2023 (according to them there are two cancellation movements, but it only concerns a single amount of €500 and not two of €500). I attach here balance movements of 4/12/2023, the date on which I canceled a withdrawal of €500 at 1.49pm. Furthermore, this movement does not result in cashier in the game history

Inoltre, dopo una accurata verifica, io ho annullato un prelievo in data 4/12/2023, e loro non hanno registrato questo movimento, registrando solo il movimento del 1 /12/2023( secondo loro sono due movimenti di annullamento, ma riguarda solo un unico importo di €500 e non due da 500€). Allego qui movimenti saldo del 4/12/2023, data in cui ho annullato alle ore13.49 un prelievo di €500 . Inoltre tale movimento non risulta in cashier, nella cronologia di gioco

This is the photo that proves that I had two pending withdrawals. On 4/12/2023 (the date on which I received a previous withdrawal of €500 (since there were 3 in total) the second withdrawal was no longer pending, as if it was about to be credited. While I finally canceled the third, the one dated 2/12/2023

Questa è la foto che dimostra che io avevo due prelievi in sospeso. In data 4/12/2023( data in cui mi è arrivato un prelievo precedente di €500( poiché erano 3 in totale) il secondo prelievo non risultava più in sospeso, come se stesse per essere accreditato. Mentre infine ho annullato il terzo, quello datato 2/12/2023

Thank you very much for your reply, JOEJANET90. Have you tried contacting the casino regarding this issue? Could you please forward all the relevant communication between you and the casino to kristina.s@casino.guru? Alternatively, you can post it here. Thank you in advance.

Hello, the Casino has closed my account

Salve, il Casinò ha chiuso il mio account

Thank you very much, JOEJANET90, for your cooperation. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Pavel (pavel.k@casino.guru) who will be at your service. I wish you the best of luck and hope the problem will be resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello, JOEJANET90!

Thank you for your patience. Now I will be taking care of your complaint and I hope that together we will resolve the problem.

I would like to invite the casino to give them a chance to explain their side of the situation.

Thank you!

Thanks, but the Casino will say that I canceled the withdrawal, because there were two withdrawals and I actually canceled one but absolutely not this one for which I wrote to you, as all the screen shots demonstrate. Now they will hardly send me the €500. Thanks anyway, I hope you can help me.

Grazie, ma il Casinò dirà che io ho annullato il prelievo, perché erano due prelievi e ne ho effettivamente annullato uno ma questo per cui vi ho scritto assolutamente no, come dimostrano tutti gli screen. Ormai difficilmente mi manderanno i 500€. Grazie lo stesso spero che voi riuscite ad aiutarmi.

Dear Pavel,

Thank you for contacting us.

We have sent you an email containing all the relevant evidence. These documents conclusively demonstrate that the customer initially canceled the 2nd withdrawal and subsequently requested it as a 3rd withdrawal, which was again canceled by him at a later time.

Please let us know in case you have any questions.

Best Regards,

Frumzi

Thank you, Frumzi!

JOEJANET90, there is no way for you to provide me with your transactions history from your casino account, right?

JOEJANET90, also, I would like to ask you how much funds have you had before you have requested the second withdrawal.

At the time I had won around €3000, but since this site has a withdrawal limit of €500 per day I requested 3 withdrawals of €500. The first was successful and was credited on 4/12/2023. On the same day I received an email with the second withdrawal being processed. (When the withdrawal is processed it no longer appears as voidable). And there remained the last withdrawal of €500 still voidable, and I canceled the latter

Allora io avevo vinto circa 3000€, ma poiché in questo sito c'è il limite di prelievo di 500€ al giorno ho richiesto 3 prelievi da €500. Il primo è andato a buon fine ed è stato accreditato in data 4/12/2023. Nello stesso giorno mi è arrivata email con il secondo prelievo in elaborazione.( Quando il prelievo viene elaborato non compare più come annullabile). E rimaneva l' ultimo prelievo di €500 ancora annullabile, e io ho annullato quest' ultimo

The balance I had at the time I canceled the withdrawal was around €16, as shown in the attached screen discussed above. €500+€16. And in fact in the cancellation the balance appears €516. The casino claims that I canceled two withdrawals, but I only canceled one. The withdrawal that was being processed was never credited to the bank account.

Il saldo che il avevo nel momento che ho annullato il prelievo era di 16€ circa, come dimostra lo screen allegato in discussione sopra. 500€+16€. E infatti nell' annullamento spunta saldo 516€. Il casinò sostiene che io avevo annullato due prelievi, invece ne ho annullato solo uno. Il prelievo che era in elaborazione non è stato mai accreditato sul conto bancario.

I attach here an email sent by Frumzi to me on 4/12/2023 where it is specified that the withdrawal of €500 has been taken care of. Then never accredited and the subject of current contention

Allego qui email inviata da Frumzi a me in data 4/12/2023 dove è specificato che il prelievo di €500 è stato preso in carico. Poi mai accreditato e oggetto di attuale contesa

So, do I understand correctly, that before requesting the second withdrawal you had the balance of 516 EUR, then you have withdrawn 500 EUR, whereas 16 EUR remained in your account, then 500 EUR was credited back, setting your balance back to 516 EUR and then you have requested 500 EUR withdrawal once more, right?

No I had 3 pending withdrawals of €500 each. The first was successful and no longer appeared pending and two appeared as in the screenshot above. After the withdrawal was credited to me, I had 0 in my account. On 4/12/2023 the second withdrawal was processed (but never credited) and no longer appeared as pending. There was the last withdrawal left which I cancelled. When I canceled the latter I had €16 in my account which added to the €500 from the cancellation makes €516. Then played them all again. (Now I don't remember if I actually canceled and re-withdrew this same amount twice but it was still 516 euros and not two withdrawals. Because if there had been two canceled withdrawals in the account I would have had €1016 instead of €516

No io avevo 3 prelievi in sospeso Di €500 ciascuno. Il primo è andato a buon fine e non compariva più in sospeso e ne comparivano due come in uno screenshot li sopra. Dopo che il prelievo mi è stato accreditato io nel conto avevo 0. In data 4/12/2023 il secondo prelievo è stato elaborato ( ma mai accreditato)e non compariva più come in sospeso. Rimaneva l' ultimo prelievo che invece io ho annullato. Quest' ultimo quando l ho annullato avevo 16€ nell' account che sommati ai 500 dell annullamento fa 516€. Poi rigiocati tutti.( Adesso io non ricordo se effettivamente ho annullato e riprelevato questo stesso importo per due volte ma si tratta pur sempre di 516 euro e non di due prelievi. Perché se fossero stati due prelievi annullati nell' account avrei dovuto avere 1016 € anziché 516€

Well, if you have requested the withdrawal, cancelled it and requested another one, it counts as two separate withdrawals, but with the same amount 500 EUR and not 1000 EUR.

Yes, of course, but the withdrawal being processed could no longer be cancelled. They claim that I canceled two €500 withdrawals and that's why they didn't send me the second €500

Si certo, però il prelievo in elaborazione non era più annullabile. Loro sostengono che io abbia annullato due prelievi da €500 e per questo non mi hanno mandato i secondi 500€

So, you are suggesting that the first withdrawal has been processed and should have been credited, but was not. And instead of that you have got 500 EUR in your account from nowhere?

I had made 3 withdrawals. The first one was credited. The second one disappeared into thin air (it was not credited to the bank account, nor to the gaming account). I canceled the third one and played the sum of €516

Avevo fatto 3 prelievi. Il primo è stato accreditato. Il secondo è sparito nel nulla( non è stato accreditato su conto bancario, ne sul conto gioco). Il terzo l' ho annullato e giocato la somma di 516€

The disputed withdrawal was never credited to the bank account and was not even reported to the gaming account. This levy has disappeared. Instead, they claim that I canceled it and replayed it. Instead, as the screenshot shows, they had processed the withdrawal on 4/12/2023 but they never credited it to the bank account or even reported it to the gaming account.

Il prelievo oggetto di contestazione non è stato mai accreditato sul conto bancario e non è stato nemmeno riportato sul conto gioco. Questo prelievo è scomparso. Loro sostengono invece che io lo avevo annullato e rigiocato. Invece come dimostra lo screenshot loro avevano elaborato il prelievo in data 4/12/2023 però non lo hanno mai accreditato sul conto bancario e nemmeno riportato sul conto gioco.

Okay, just couple more questions:

1. Have you played any games between requesting first withdrawal and the second (voided) withdrawal?
2. Do you remember what balance have you had right before requesting the second (voided) withdrawal?
3. If you remember, how much was it?

Having won over €3000 I waited every day to withdraw €500, in the meantime I played. I played for a few days so I don't remember all the moves now. However, I understand that it is a difficult case, I have now lost hope, I have sent many screenshots and I can't even access the account anymore. There were several inconsistencies and I think they themselves didn't understand well and got confused. When I canceled the withdrawal I had a balance of €16. After canceling €516 and then playing on the site

Avendo vinto oltre 3000 € aspettavo ogni giorno per fare prelievo da €500, nel frattempo giocavo . Ho giocato per alcuni giorni quindi adesso non ricordo tutti i movimenti. Comunque capisco che è un caso difficile, ormai ho perso le speranze, ho mandato molti screenshot e non riesco nemmeno ad accedere più all' account. Ci sono state diverse incongruenze e loro stessi penso che non abbiano capito bene e si sono confusi. Io quando ho annullato il prelievo avevo saldo di €16. Dopo annullato 516€ e poi giocati sul sito

Frumzi Casino, is it possible to open the player's account without deposit option for a short time for them to download transaction history?

The transaction history is very long, it would take days to download it. Anyway, thank you for taking an interest in this case.

La cronologia della transazioni è molto lunga, servirebbero giorni per scaricarla. Comunque la ringrazio di essersi interessato a questo caso.

Searching through the screenshots sent to a friend, I show definitive proof that the withdrawals were 3 of €500.

The first dates 11/30/2023, the second 12/1/2023, the third 12/2/2023. I only canceled the third of €500.

In the second screenshot I show how the withdrawal of 11/30/2023 is no longer there since it was processed and the other two withdrawals remain.

Cercando tra gli screenshot inviati a un amico , mostro la prova definitiva che i prelievi erano 3 da €500.

Il primo data 30/11/2023, il secondo 1/12/2023 , il terzo 2/12/2023. Io ho annullato solo il terzo di €500.

Nel secondo screenshot mostro come il prelievo del 30/11/2023 non c'è più poiché elaborato e rimangono gli altri due prelievi.

Dear Pavel,

Thank you for your assistance and understanding in the case.

We have sent the balance history to the customer and provided an explanation to their confusion.

We sincerely appreciate your cooperation!

Best Regards,

Frumzi

JOEJANET90, it is really hard for me to follow the order of withdrawals and their cancellations, so I suggest that you make a list of all withdrawals and mark all dates on which these withdrawals had been requested and if they were successful or not. I will present my list below, gathering all the information I have understood from the full thread. Please, copy it, correct if I have mentioned anything wrong and send it back.

1. Withdrawal on the 30.11, which was successful according to your last message.
2. Withdrawal on the 1.12, which was successful according to the screenshot you have sent above.
3. Withdrawal on the 2.12, which has been cancelled by you and then played away.

Frumzi Casino sent the transaction balance, but they still can't understand that the second and third withdrawals that they claim I canceled are one amount and not two separate amounts.

Il casinò Frumzi ha inviato il saldo transazioni, ma ancora non riescono a capire che il secondo e il terzo prelievo che loro sostengono che io abbia annullato so tratta di un unico importo e non due importi distinti.

Pavel, what you wrote is correct.

-1 successful withdrawal 11/30/2023

-2 withdrawal 01/12/2023 disappeared (never credited)

-3 withdrawal 02/12/2023 canceled by me and played the sum of €516.23

Pavel è corretto quello che hai scritto tu.

-1 prelievo 30/11/2023 andato a buon fine

-2 prelievo 01/12/2023 è sparito ( mai accreditato)

-3 prelievo 02/12/2023 annullato da me e giocato la somma di €516.23

Withdrawal 01/12/2023 never credited

In the balance history only two cancellations of an amount equal to €516.23 are shown. This movement concerns the amount of the third withdrawal. Instead, the second withdrawal was no longer voidable but processed by the department and never credited to the bank account.

Prelievo 01/12/2023 mai accreditato

Nella cronologia del saldo viene mostrato solo due annullamenti di importo uguale 516.23€ . Questo movimento riguarda l' importo del terzo prelievo. Invece il secondo prelievo non era più annullabile ma elaborato dal dipartimento e mai accreditato su conto bancario.

So, according to this screenshot, the withdrawal (1.12) has been shown as completed, but you claim that it was not credited neither to your bank account, nor back to your casino account?

Also, if you open the document that the casino has sent to you, you will see that the withdrawal made on 1.12 on 3:39, has been cancelled the same day on 17:04.

That's right, the withdrawal was neither credited to the bank account nor to the gaming account. It was processed by the finance department but never accredited

Esatto il prelievo non è stato ne accreditato su conto bancario, ne su conto gioco. Risultava elaborato dal dipartimento finanziario ma mai accreditato

Yes, I canceled the third withdrawal. I didn't cancel the other two.

The first arrived on 4/12/2023 on a bank account. On the same day, the second one was processed (that of 1/12/2023) which was never credited and cannot be canceled.

The third withdrawal (2/12/2023) was instead canceled by me (€516.23) and the entire amount was played.

Si io ho annullato il terzo prelievo. Gli altri due non ho annullato.

Il primo è arrivato in data 4/12/2023 su conto bancario. Nello stesso giorno è stato elaborato il secondo( quello del 1/12/2023) mai accreditato e non annullabile.

Il terzo prelievo( 2/12/2023) è stato invece annullato da me(516.23€) e giocato tutto l' importo.

I understand. In the casino's document it can be clearly seen that the withdrawal (the second one - the withdrawal that you say has been missing, which has been requested on the 1.12) is cancelled the same day on 17:04. Are you saying that this data is wrong?

It is probable that the withdrawal they show as completed is that of 11/30/2023

On 4/12/2023, €500 of the first withdrawal arrived in my bank account and furthermore the second withdrawal which was processed by the financial department and was never credited either to the bank account or to the gaming account was no longer cancelable.

Instead, the third withdrawal (2/12/2023) was still pending and therefore voidable and was canceled by me.

I don't know how to explain it all anymore. Clearer than that.

Probabile che il prelievo che loro mostrano come completato sia quello del 30/11/2023

In data 4/12/2023 mi arrivano su conto bancario 500€ del primo prelievo e inoltre non risulta più annullabile il secondo prelievo che viene elaborato dal dipartimento finanziario e mai accreditato né su conto bancario ne su conto gioco.

Invece il terzo prelievo(2/12/2023) era ancora in sospeso e quindi annullabile ed è stato annullato da me.

Non so più come spiegare il tutto. Più chiaro di così.

Out of three withdrawals I only canceled one of €500. What appears canceled is the third withdrawal and not the second

Su tre prelievi io ne ho annullato uno solo di €500. Quello che spunta annullato è il terzo prelievo e non il secondo

Yes, all you say correspond with what you have said before and I understand that the withdrawal that has been made on 30.11 was credited to your bank account on 4.12 and the withdrawal that has been made on the 2.12 was cancelled by you. But, please, take a look at these two screenshots. The withdrawal that has been missing (1.12), according to you (1st screenshot) has been cancelled on the same day (1.12), according to the casino files. Can you agree with it or express your disagreement? If you do not agree, I suggest that the casino opens your account and you check the balance log by yourself, and if it differs from the log that the casino has sent to us, provide it to me and we will push the case further. Until you express your opinion on the missing withdrawal and that it is shown that it has been cancelled, there is nothing more I can do.

Here is the definitive proof

1 withdrawal

2 withdrawal

3 withdrawal cancelled

Ecco la prova definitiva

1 prelievo 

2 prelievo

3 prelievo cancelled

I can't upload screenshots 1 withdrawal

You can see for yourself

11/30/2023 at 8.53 pm

I had €50 and I cancel the €50 and put in €500

Non riesco a caricare screenshot 1 prelievo

Puoi vedere tu stesso

30/11/2023 alle ore 20.53

Avevo 50€ e annullo i 50€ e metto 500€

Please, open the document and go to the row 6546, make a screenshot and send it here.

I saw the screenshot you sent me. It seems strange to me that with a balance of €1300 I was going to cancel the withdrawal of €500.

However, now after a month it is difficult for me to remember all the movements, I have provided many screenshots. Then I don't know if they canceled the withdrawal during the game, but I didn't do it, also because it made no sense to cancel it. It is a very serious thing if they cancel the withdrawals without my consent. Thank you anyway for your interest, I think I have provided all the evidence.

Ho visto lo screenshot che mi hai mandato. Mi sembra strano che il con un saldo di €1300 andavo ad annullare il prelievo di €500.

Comunque ormai dopo un mese è difficile che il ricordo tutti i movimenti, ho fornito molti screenshot. Poi se loro hanno annullato il prelievo durante il gioco non so, ma io non l' ho fatto, anche perché non aveva senso annullarlo. È una cosa molto grave se annullano i prelievi senza il mio consenso. Ti ringrazio comunque per l' interessamento, io penso di aver fornito tutte le prove.

If you still disagree that this withdrawal was cancelled, you can object and we will ask the casino to open your account and you can check it by yourself. In the case, that you agree that the "missing" withdrawal has been cancelled and returned to the casino account, I will reject this complaint, as there will be no point in pushing it further.

I saw line 6543

This results in a canceled withdrawal of €500. with balance from 1300 to 1800.

As you can see all in two seconds which is not congruent and impossible that in two seconds I exited the game canceled and returned to the slot. So it was the casino itself that canceled my withdrawal then

Ho visto la riga 6543

Risulta un prelievo cancellato di €500. con saldo da 1300 a 1800.

Come puoi vedere il tutto in due secondi il che non è congruente e impossibile che in due secondi uscivo dal gioco annullavo e tornavo nella slot. Dunque è stato il casinò stesso che ha annullato il mio prelievo allora

I didn't cancel that withdrawal

Io non ho annullato quel prelievo

Definitely. Balance movements show a canceled withdrawal during a gaming session. The cancellation was done by the Casino without my consent and during the session, so that I could not notice the cancellation and think that the withdrawal was processed rather than cancelled. Or the casino added that entry manually. I do not know what to think. I am in good faith

In definitiva. Dai movimenti del saldo risulta un prelievo annullato durante una sessione di gioco . L' annullamento è stato fatto dal Casinò senza il mio consenso e durante la sessione , in modo che non potevo accorgermi dell' annullamento e pensare che il prelievo era elaborato anziché annullato. Oppure il casinò ha aggiunto quella voce manualmente. Non so più cosa pensare. Io sono in buona fede

I regret to inform you that we cannot assist you in recovering the funds that were initially set for withdrawal and subsequently returned to your active balance. While I acknowledge that in an ideal scenario, these funds should remain separate until withdrawal cancellation, it's essential to acknowledge that you should have been aware of the funds being reinstated into your account during gameplay. The substantial amount involved couldn't have gone unnoticed.

I am forced to reject your complaint as unjustified. I wish I could be of more help. Thank you in advance for your reply and understanding.

I would also like to thank the Frumzi Casino for their cooperation.